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	<title>Comments on: A Restraining Order from the Church</title>
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	<link>http://holinessreeducation.com/2008/06/03/a-restraining-order-from-the-church/</link>
	<description>We all need some reeducation to see and to live like Jesus</description>
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		<title>By: The way church/community should be at sprignaturemoves.com</title>
		<link>http://holinessreeducation.com/2008/06/03/a-restraining-order-from-the-church/comment-page-2/#comment-4103</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The way church/community should be at sprignaturemoves.com]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 00:36:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gregarthur.wordpress.com/?p=329#comment-4103</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] suing their church to let them come back. (BTW, here&#8217;s some good perspective on that article here and [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] suing their church to let them come back. (BTW, here&#8217;s some good perspective on that article here and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Response to Greg&#8217;s recent blog &#171; Holiness Reeducation</title>
		<link>http://holinessreeducation.com/2008/06/03/a-restraining-order-from-the-church/comment-page-2/#comment-4100</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Response to Greg&#8217;s recent blog &#171; Holiness Reeducation]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 19:58:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gregarthur.wordpress.com/?p=329#comment-4100</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] by the Catholic Church on the family of Adam Race, the autistic son of a devout Catholic woman (see Greg&#8217;s last blog), I am drawn back to an article I read a few years ago by Stanley Hauerwas entitled Gestures of a [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] by the Catholic Church on the family of Adam Race, the autistic son of a devout Catholic woman (see Greg&#8217;s last blog), I am drawn back to an article I read a few years ago by Stanley Hauerwas entitled Gestures of a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Shay</title>
		<link>http://holinessreeducation.com/2008/06/03/a-restraining-order-from-the-church/comment-page-2/#comment-4098</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Shay]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 03:09:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gregarthur.wordpress.com/?p=329#comment-4098</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you, Todd.  You make many wonderful points.  It is curious why this has become such a huge story when the family could have quietly found a place that reflected the image of Christ that they obviously expect from a church.  (Not that that is the right answer.)  Or the church could have done something to make the situation better.  I also appreciate the reference to the paralyzed man.  The physically and mentally challenged are definitely Jesus&#039; homies.  He went out of his way to spend time with the blind, crippled, diseased, demon possessed, etc.  

I think the thing that fascinates us all about this is why there was so little done by either side to be reconciled to the other.  Todd, you are right to say that the story seems half told at best.  I wouldn&#039;t be shocked if there was a list of other issues between this family and the church.  

And Maggie, you are right that none of us can know what God is doing inside Adam or inside anyone else, for that matter.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Todd.  You make many wonderful points.  It is curious why this has become such a huge story when the family could have quietly found a place that reflected the image of Christ that they obviously expect from a church.  (Not that that is the right answer.)  Or the church could have done something to make the situation better.  I also appreciate the reference to the paralyzed man.  The physically and mentally challenged are definitely Jesus&#8217; homies.  He went out of his way to spend time with the blind, crippled, diseased, demon possessed, etc.  </p>
<p>I think the thing that fascinates us all about this is why there was so little done by either side to be reconciled to the other.  Todd, you are right to say that the story seems half told at best.  I wouldn&#8217;t be shocked if there was a list of other issues between this family and the church.  </p>
<p>And Maggie, you are right that none of us can know what God is doing inside Adam or inside anyone else, for that matter.</p>
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		<title>By: Maggie</title>
		<link>http://holinessreeducation.com/2008/06/03/a-restraining-order-from-the-church/comment-page-2/#comment-4097</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maggie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 02:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gregarthur.wordpress.com/?p=329#comment-4097</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Who says that Adam isn&#039;t growing closer to God in all this ridiculousness?  People acting like jerks because they don&#039;t like someone&#039;s behavior in worship does not prohibit God from drawing that person very, very near.   Adam might be the one being blessed while everyone else is wrapped up in a battle going nowhere.

I wonder....Has there been any invitation from another congregation out there in Minn. extending a welcome to this family???  Seems like a perfect opportunity for the church to step up to the plate and boldly be who we are called to be.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who says that Adam isn&#8217;t growing closer to God in all this ridiculousness?  People acting like jerks because they don&#8217;t like someone&#8217;s behavior in worship does not prohibit God from drawing that person very, very near.   Adam might be the one being blessed while everyone else is wrapped up in a battle going nowhere.</p>
<p>I wonder&#8230;.Has there been any invitation from another congregation out there in Minn. extending a welcome to this family???  Seems like a perfect opportunity for the church to step up to the plate and boldly be who we are called to be.</p>
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		<title>By: toddzilla</title>
		<link>http://holinessreeducation.com/2008/06/03/a-restraining-order-from-the-church/comment-page-2/#comment-4096</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[toddzilla]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 20:22:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gregarthur.wordpress.com/?p=329#comment-4096</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, now that you mention it, let&#039;s not go down any legal road as far as the Catholic church is concerned.  You are right that the church should welcome any consequences for being hospitable and accommodating, but by wondering about the legal ramifications, I was trying to put myself in the church&#039;s shoes to figure out why they took out a restraining order in the first place, not to justify the order itself.

As far as accepting those that the world rejects, Autism does not make Adam a sinner, nor does it make him any more broken than anyone else.  We are all broken, so why should we push others away to facilitate Adam (in this case).  If certain members of the congregation are so snobbish as to turn their backs on a handicapped person, then that shows their brokenness and need for grace as well.  

I think we are in agreement for the most part.  As I stated earlier, nobody should be denied access to Christ and I do not think that the restraining order was the correct way to go.  I feel that concessions should be made by all parties for the greater good of Adam being able to worship in some way (I may be creating some confusion about the &quot;parties&quot; involved because I&#039;ve been treating the church administration as different from the congregation, so when I type &quot;church&quot; I meant the priests and church administration).

My question is, why does the onus of this entire situation fall upon the church administration?  Is it not feasible to facilitate a different worship environment for Adam (much like the parents themselves do with the separate study rooms)?  Who is to say that Adam being in a regular Mass best serves his needs?  I am better served to attend a service in English than one in Spanish and it may even be better for Adam if he has a different service with someone that is better suited for his special needs and who may be better able to help him worship in a meaningful way (much like the churches that Greg mentioned as having special needs programs).  These facts are just not properly laid out in the story and this is the pitfall of oversimplifying autism and it&#039;s effects.  

I am reminded of the lame man that was lowered through the roof to see Christ.  His friends worked together for the greater good.  If I may extend the metaphor further, they had to cut somebody&#039;s roof open to do it...pedantic as it may sound, it was a sacrifice made by somebody (the house&#039;s owner).  I think the parents, the church administration, and the congregation need to figure out how to best &quot;cut a hole in the roof&quot;, so that Adam may know God better.  The question is how?  Maybe it is something as simple as allowing Adam to attend worship no matter what and anyone who doesn&#039;t like it can go somewhere else (but doesn&#039;t that show a lack of grace for those members of the congregation?).  It seems as if the two major parties have just crossed their arms and refused to budge on the issue and as a result, nothing is being resolved, Adam is not growing closer to God, and the congregation isn&#039;t learning anything about grace.  That is a no-win situation.

Do I sound like a jerk yet?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, now that you mention it, let&#8217;s not go down any legal road as far as the Catholic church is concerned.  You are right that the church should welcome any consequences for being hospitable and accommodating, but by wondering about the legal ramifications, I was trying to put myself in the church&#8217;s shoes to figure out why they took out a restraining order in the first place, not to justify the order itself.</p>
<p>As far as accepting those that the world rejects, Autism does not make Adam a sinner, nor does it make him any more broken than anyone else.  We are all broken, so why should we push others away to facilitate Adam (in this case).  If certain members of the congregation are so snobbish as to turn their backs on a handicapped person, then that shows their brokenness and need for grace as well.  </p>
<p>I think we are in agreement for the most part.  As I stated earlier, nobody should be denied access to Christ and I do not think that the restraining order was the correct way to go.  I feel that concessions should be made by all parties for the greater good of Adam being able to worship in some way (I may be creating some confusion about the &#8220;parties&#8221; involved because I&#8217;ve been treating the church administration as different from the congregation, so when I type &#8220;church&#8221; I meant the priests and church administration).</p>
<p>My question is, why does the onus of this entire situation fall upon the church administration?  Is it not feasible to facilitate a different worship environment for Adam (much like the parents themselves do with the separate study rooms)?  Who is to say that Adam being in a regular Mass best serves his needs?  I am better served to attend a service in English than one in Spanish and it may even be better for Adam if he has a different service with someone that is better suited for his special needs and who may be better able to help him worship in a meaningful way (much like the churches that Greg mentioned as having special needs programs).  These facts are just not properly laid out in the story and this is the pitfall of oversimplifying autism and it&#8217;s effects.  </p>
<p>I am reminded of the lame man that was lowered through the roof to see Christ.  His friends worked together for the greater good.  If I may extend the metaphor further, they had to cut somebody&#8217;s roof open to do it&#8230;pedantic as it may sound, it was a sacrifice made by somebody (the house&#8217;s owner).  I think the parents, the church administration, and the congregation need to figure out how to best &#8220;cut a hole in the roof&#8221;, so that Adam may know God better.  The question is how?  Maybe it is something as simple as allowing Adam to attend worship no matter what and anyone who doesn&#8217;t like it can go somewhere else (but doesn&#8217;t that show a lack of grace for those members of the congregation?).  It seems as if the two major parties have just crossed their arms and refused to budge on the issue and as a result, nothing is being resolved, Adam is not growing closer to God, and the congregation isn&#8217;t learning anything about grace.  That is a no-win situation.</p>
<p>Do I sound like a jerk yet?</p>
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		<title>By: Shay</title>
		<link>http://holinessreeducation.com/2008/06/03/a-restraining-order-from-the-church/comment-page-2/#comment-4095</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Shay]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 18:26:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gregarthur.wordpress.com/?p=329#comment-4095</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have a lot more grace for a mother struggling to raise an autistic son than I do for the institution and leadership of the church.  (See James 3:1)  True, persecution is different than suffering in that it is a specific subset of the suffering we should expect when following Christ, but I believe a congregation can find empowering ways to support and help the family rather than banishing them.  

As Greg noted, the church doesn&#039;t (or shouldn&#039;t) close it&#039;s doors to sex offenders or anyone else who the world dubs &quot;dangerous.&quot;  When the world rejects the sinners, who will accept them?  When the world rejects the broken, who will accept them?  Hopefully it is the church, no matter what the situation or the cost.  

As for the legal issues, the Catholic church has not seemed too concerned with nipping potential legal issues in the bud in the past few years, so this doesn&#039;t seem like the place to start.  If we want to talk about legal ramifications for the Catholic Church creating a safe place for children, we could open a huge can of worms.  

Instead of going down that road, I just want to point out that if the church were to suffer legal consequences for being hospitable and accommodating to Adam and his family that too would be the natural effect of following Jesus in this broken world and should be welcomed joyfully.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a lot more grace for a mother struggling to raise an autistic son than I do for the institution and leadership of the church.  (See James 3:1)  True, persecution is different than suffering in that it is a specific subset of the suffering we should expect when following Christ, but I believe a congregation can find empowering ways to support and help the family rather than banishing them.  </p>
<p>As Greg noted, the church doesn&#8217;t (or shouldn&#8217;t) close it&#8217;s doors to sex offenders or anyone else who the world dubs &#8220;dangerous.&#8221;  When the world rejects the sinners, who will accept them?  When the world rejects the broken, who will accept them?  Hopefully it is the church, no matter what the situation or the cost.  </p>
<p>As for the legal issues, the Catholic church has not seemed too concerned with nipping potential legal issues in the bud in the past few years, so this doesn&#8217;t seem like the place to start.  If we want to talk about legal ramifications for the Catholic Church creating a safe place for children, we could open a huge can of worms.  </p>
<p>Instead of going down that road, I just want to point out that if the church were to suffer legal consequences for being hospitable and accommodating to Adam and his family that too would be the natural effect of following Jesus in this broken world and should be welcomed joyfully.</p>
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		<title>By: toddzilla</title>
		<link>http://holinessreeducation.com/2008/06/03/a-restraining-order-from-the-church/comment-page-2/#comment-4093</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[toddzilla]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 15:38:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gregarthur.wordpress.com/?p=329#comment-4093</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Shay-

You are definitely correct in reminding us that Christians should not expect to worship in safety and that underlines how easy we do have it, historically speaking.  I had not considered that, but this is not the same thing as persecution.  This can be viewed as an environmental danger.  Even when persecuted, the Christians went underground.  They made some changes in order to be able to worship and still spread the Gospel.

Faith is nothing without sacrfice, but why should one party do all the &quot;sacrificing&quot;?  I think all parties involved here should compromise to ensure that Adam has access to Christ.

This is also a case of business and church mixing because I&#039;m thinking that the church will have a legal obligation to provide a safe environment for worship and as much as I hate to say this, I&#039;m sure the restraining order stems more from legal protection standpoint.  I&#039;m sure that lawsuits are heavy on the church&#039;s mind and that motivated the restraining order.  Extreme?  Sure, but unnecessary if some compromise would be taken.
(I hate to even broach the legal issue, but it&#039;s an elephant in the room).

My biggest complaint with this entire issue is the one-sidedness of the story as it is written.  I feel that it is written from a perspective of making the church look bad (and I don&#039;t want to defend the church).  But this article paints autism in a collective light when it is very much a condition to be considered individually.  What is good for one individual with autism may well be terrible for another.  Also, there is no indication of what Adam&#039;s parents were doing when all these events are mentioned.  Are they taking extra measures to help out? 

I know I&#039;m looking at this from a pragmatic viewpoint, but by the parents and the church being unwilling to compromise, then both Adam and the congregation are distracted from worship.

Whew!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shay-</p>
<p>You are definitely correct in reminding us that Christians should not expect to worship in safety and that underlines how easy we do have it, historically speaking.  I had not considered that, but this is not the same thing as persecution.  This can be viewed as an environmental danger.  Even when persecuted, the Christians went underground.  They made some changes in order to be able to worship and still spread the Gospel.</p>
<p>Faith is nothing without sacrfice, but why should one party do all the &#8220;sacrificing&#8221;?  I think all parties involved here should compromise to ensure that Adam has access to Christ.</p>
<p>This is also a case of business and church mixing because I&#8217;m thinking that the church will have a legal obligation to provide a safe environment for worship and as much as I hate to say this, I&#8217;m sure the restraining order stems more from legal protection standpoint.  I&#8217;m sure that lawsuits are heavy on the church&#8217;s mind and that motivated the restraining order.  Extreme?  Sure, but unnecessary if some compromise would be taken.<br />
(I hate to even broach the legal issue, but it&#8217;s an elephant in the room).</p>
<p>My biggest complaint with this entire issue is the one-sidedness of the story as it is written.  I feel that it is written from a perspective of making the church look bad (and I don&#8217;t want to defend the church).  But this article paints autism in a collective light when it is very much a condition to be considered individually.  What is good for one individual with autism may well be terrible for another.  Also, there is no indication of what Adam&#8217;s parents were doing when all these events are mentioned.  Are they taking extra measures to help out? </p>
<p>I know I&#8217;m looking at this from a pragmatic viewpoint, but by the parents and the church being unwilling to compromise, then both Adam and the congregation are distracted from worship.</p>
<p>Whew!</p>
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		<title>By: Shay</title>
		<link>http://holinessreeducation.com/2008/06/03/a-restraining-order-from-the-church/comment-page-2/#comment-4092</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Shay]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 02:02:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gregarthur.wordpress.com/?p=329#comment-4092</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Todd, you said, &quot;Just like everyone having the right to attend church…they should also have the right to feel safe in doing so.&quot;  
When did we acquire this rite to be &quot;safe&quot; in our worship?  The majority of Christians that have ever lived have faced legitimate danger of persecution (not just verbal, but physical) for gathering to worship.  We are to suffer for Christ.  We are to carry our crosses.  We are to put others before ourselves.  And yet, in the post-Constantine world and specifically in the pluralistic politically correct American society, we have this notion that worshipping Christ is supposed to be easy and pleasant, that we aren&#039;t supposed to sacrifice or suffer, that we don&#039;t have to make hard choices, because our God wants us to have it all.
What is faith if there is no sacrifice required?  What is sacrifice if there is nothing lost or suffered?  What is gained if we aren&#039;t willing to lose or suffer the things of this world?
I hear what you&#039;re saying, Todd.  You have very valid points.  If we can provide a safe way for everyone to worship together that should be the first step and that seems like a very plausible scenario.  It&#039;s amazing how limited many of our imaginations are.  I applaud your willingness to push the issue on the other side.  
I am still trying to find time to pull out the article that talks about this and write another response, so let&#039;s keep this convo going until then.  Thanks, all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Todd, you said, &#8220;Just like everyone having the right to attend church…they should also have the right to feel safe in doing so.&#8221;<br />
When did we acquire this rite to be &#8220;safe&#8221; in our worship?  The majority of Christians that have ever lived have faced legitimate danger of persecution (not just verbal, but physical) for gathering to worship.  We are to suffer for Christ.  We are to carry our crosses.  We are to put others before ourselves.  And yet, in the post-Constantine world and specifically in the pluralistic politically correct American society, we have this notion that worshipping Christ is supposed to be easy and pleasant, that we aren&#8217;t supposed to sacrifice or suffer, that we don&#8217;t have to make hard choices, because our God wants us to have it all.<br />
What is faith if there is no sacrifice required?  What is sacrifice if there is nothing lost or suffered?  What is gained if we aren&#8217;t willing to lose or suffer the things of this world?<br />
I hear what you&#8217;re saying, Todd.  You have very valid points.  If we can provide a safe way for everyone to worship together that should be the first step and that seems like a very plausible scenario.  It&#8217;s amazing how limited many of our imaginations are.  I applaud your willingness to push the issue on the other side.<br />
I am still trying to find time to pull out the article that talks about this and write another response, so let&#8217;s keep this convo going until then.  Thanks, all.</p>
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		<title>By: gregarthur</title>
		<link>http://holinessreeducation.com/2008/06/03/a-restraining-order-from-the-church/comment-page-2/#comment-4091</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gregarthur]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 20:50:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gregarthur.wordpress.com/?p=329#comment-4091</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well if you and I can agree on that, surely we can fix all the churches problems. We need to open a church consulting firm called Todd and Greg Tell It Like It Is!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well if you and I can agree on that, surely we can fix all the churches problems. We need to open a church consulting firm called Todd and Greg Tell It Like It Is!</p>
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		<title>By: toddzilla</title>
		<link>http://holinessreeducation.com/2008/06/03/a-restraining-order-from-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-4090</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[toddzilla]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 18:21:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gregarthur.wordpress.com/?p=329#comment-4090</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Greg-

Exactly!  We all are called to work together as the body of Christ.  This issue does not fall solely on the church, the parents, or the parishioners.  We should work together to help others.  Nobody should be denied Christ.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg-</p>
<p>Exactly!  We all are called to work together as the body of Christ.  This issue does not fall solely on the church, the parents, or the parishioners.  We should work together to help others.  Nobody should be denied Christ.</p>
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