Unbelievably, yesterday my blog went over 50,000 views. In the two years I have been writing it I have found great joy in the discipline of writing. I have encountered new friends, and most importantly I know that people really, desperately, passionately care about who the greatest lead singer in rock history is and what is the greatest rock song ever.
So to celebrate the 8 people who have visited my blog 6250 times each, I give you a bunch of random links and thoughts from the mind of Greg. Here we go.
Youth in Great Britain are mad because stores have started using a device after hours that emits a high pitched 85 db noise that is brutally annoying. Evidently about the age of 25 we lose the ability to hear this sound so only the young and loitering are bothered by it. It sounds kind of like a war on teenagers, but more importantly, did you know you have already lost some sounds from my life. Why didn’t anyone tell me this? I feel robbed. Someone at least could have told me.
Watched the Oscars with my lovely wife on Sunday. For her it is bigger than the Super Bowl. That is if the Super Bowl were played by a bunch of people you have never seen play before. for teams no one has ever heard of, and these teams were renowned for being creepy, disturbing, violent, and tedious. I didn’t see any of the films up for best picture, (although I do want to see No Country for Old Men, and maybe There will be Blood), but Jon Stewart is right, Hollywood must need a big hug. Yikes, was there a feel good movie at all in 2007?
By the way, here is me as Anton Chigurh
When I started seminary my wife banned me from using the word hermeneutics. Evidently I was a little full of myself and like to talk about hermeneutics and exegesis quite a bit back in those days. Have no idea what I am talking about? Well go to this site and take a hermeneutics test to see where you fall in the realm of Biblical interpretation. Thanks to Scot McKnight for creating this.
I had the best concert experience of my life on Friday night. A couple of friends and I went to US3D the greatest concert movie ever made. I saw this tour in Charlotte a couple of years ago and that experience paled in comparison to the experience of 3D U2 on an IMAX. The sound, the 3D effects, and the cinematography were all excellent. Wow, I can’t say enough about it. If you like U2, at all, you must go see this movie.
Seeing the movie also made me think about what we look like when go to concerts or sporting events. When we cheer, go crazy, sing along with all we have, and act like the people I saw in the film, we all look like idiots. The intensity, devotion, and focus on the 3D faces of the fans I saw almost unnerved me. It also made me wonder why we look like that at a concert but never in worship. Maybe we just don’t live our lives with enough awe of God. I hope I never appear to be more in awe of some athlete or a band than I am my God.
It has been three weeks in Lent now and I am a little tire of rice and beans. Sunday I had a double bacon cheeseburger from Burger King and it made me sing the doxology it tasted so good. I don’t ever eat fast food if I can avoid it, but man that was good. I have started planning my meals for the week after Easter and let me tell you, much like all the Oscar nominees, there is going to be some blood that week! Chickens, cows, pigs, fish, they are all going to quake with fear when I approach them. Mark it on your calendars, in April there will be a worldwide shortage of bacon! Sweet Jesus, thank you for the resurrected life of Easter that look forward to celebrating with as many varieties of pig as possible!
There is some randomness to celebrate life as it is today. Thanks to the 8 people who keep stopping by!
April 18, 2008 at 11:48 pm
Paul,
Honestly I am not trying to defend either of those guys. They are big boys. They can live with the fallout from whatever they said. I have said several times that I am disappointed in what Bell said. I don’t think it was a good reflection of anything specifically Christian.
Is there a transcript about anything Pagitt said? I still haven’t seen that to my knowledge.
I am disappointed, but I am still not going to spend my time criticizing them in a way that does nothing positive. I am not sure how you and debating the merits of what they said will affect anything.
You and I both agree that there wasn’t a presentation of the gospel in what Rob said. I am not discounting his ministry because of it, but it is what it is.
I am sure MacArthur would have presented the gospel to the fullness of his understanding and belief if given the chance there.
I am very willing to disagree with, interact with, and criticize if necessary theology, sermons, actions, and beliefs of any Christians, especially emergents. I just don’t think that anyone one or two people are the voices of the emerging church. That is kind of the point.
April 19, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Good morning, Greg.
Is there a transcript about anything Pagitt said? I still haven’t seen that to my knowledge.
The video is posted on the Seeds of Compassion website and also can be linked via Doug Pagitt’s blog. Pagitt’s session is coupled together with Bell’s session.
I am not sure how you and debating the merits of what they said will affect anything.
We are called to a defense of the faith and to the giving of the Gospel.
I am sure MacArthur would have presented the gospel to the fullness of his understanding and belief if given the chance there.
Good we agree. There is no doubt that MacArthur would have given THE GOSPEL. He wouldn’t have needed “the chance”… He would have siezed the moment just like he has in the past. Bell and Pagitt were given “the chance” with every question that they were asked and did not give the Gospel.
And are you really stating that MacArthur may not fully understand the Gospel and that he may not give it accurately (“the gospel to the fullness of his understanding and belief“)? If so, why?
And that begs the question…If we agree that Bell failed to give the Gospel (per what you said, the only reason a Christian should be at an event like this), what is the Gospel? How do you define it?
I just don’t think that anyone one or two people are the voices of the emerging church. That is kind of the point.
So…you don’t think that Bell, specifically because you haven’t seen Pagitt’s comments, and Pagitt gave a fair and accurate portrayal of the emergent church at the Seeds of Compassion event? Did they somehow not represent the emergent movement well at this event?
April 19, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Greg,
Maybe what Bell said at the Seeds of Compassion is routed in what he really believes and what he stated in “Velvet Elvis”:
“the most powerful things happen when the church surrenders its desire to convert people…” (p. 167).
April 20, 2008 at 2:16 am
Paul,
My statement about MacArthur was not implying anything other than what it said.
I will check out what Pagitt said and let you know what I think.
I don’t think Bell’s statements accurately reflect anything other than what he wanted to communicate to that audience. Why that is what he wanted to communicate, I have no idea. Where his answers ones that I would have given, or what I would expect any Christian leader to offer in that setting, no.
I don’t know how Bell and Pagitt represented Christianity or emergent aside from Bell’s comments, so I will have to look at the information more before making any statements about their work there.
April 21, 2008 at 1:37 am
Greg,
My statement about MacArthur was not implying anything other than what it said.
There seemed to be an implication by your qualifier (“to the fullness of his understanding and belief“) that MacArthur doesn’t necessarily know the accurate Gospel. Am I wrong, here?
Is the Gospel clearly defined for us in the Bible?
If so, what does the Bible say that the Gospel is?
I don’t know how Bell and Pagitt represented Christianity or emergent aside from Bell’s comments…
Do you think that Bell’s answers to those questions were reflective of the emergent thought and response?
April 21, 2008 at 1:46 pm
The only qualifier about the Gospel isn’t a MacArthur specific qualifier. The Gospel is clearly stated in the Bible. But, we spend our entire lives trying to understand and grasp the Gospel. It is one thing to know what salvation through faith in Jesus is and another thing to understand fully how to live into that in our world. That is where sanctification comes in. As we journey (follow the way of Christ) towards Christ we are made more and more into his image. As this happens we understand so much more the reality and implications of the gospel. And so like I said, I am sure MacArthur would have presented the gospel to the fullness of his understanding and belief. It really wasn’t a backhanded statement. I tend to make those forthright.
I think I answered the question about Bell several times. The answers that he shared are his own and reflect only his own thoughts and beliefs. They were not a voice for a movement, nor were they particularly effective in representing Christianity. I would hope that any Christian leader emergent or otherwise would have mentioned Christ in that moment. The other speakers didn’t seem to back away from quoting the Quran or espousing their full beliefs. I am not sure why Bell did. But, I think I have already said that a couple of times.
April 22, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Good morning, Greg.
The Gospel is clearly stated in the Bible. But, we spend our entire lives trying to understand and grasp the Gospel. It is one thing to know what salvation through faith in Jesus is and another thing to understand fully how to live into that in our world. That is where sanctification comes in.
I believe that this is another emergent strawman…
I am not aware of any teacher, including MacArthur, or denomination that does not teach the Gospel AND sanctification.
I think I answered the question about Bell several times. The answers that he shared are his own and reflect only his own thoughts and beliefs.
Do you think that Bell would agree with your assessment that he was not a voice for the emergent movement and that he was not particularly effective in representing Christianity (that was a gracious way of putting it, btw, but not very accurate)?
April 22, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Paul,
I feel like you are having the strawman argument as I did not say that MacArthur didn’t preach the gospel and sanctification. You simply asked me to clarify my statement and I did. In neither statement did I disagree with or criticize MacArthur for anything he said. I was simply sharing my understanding.
I do know plenty of churches and teachers, however, who do not teach the fullness of the gospel or anything about sanctification. Their doctrinal statements may give a nod in the direction of both, but their praxis does not reflect that reality. I am sure you could also name quite a few.
As far as Bell goes, I have no idea. I don’t know that he thinks of himself as a voice for anything or anyone other than himself and his church. I am not that interested in drawing lines in the sand of the emergent church about who is in who is out and who speaks for whom. That is not really the point. I also have no idea if Bell is enamored or disappointed with what happened at the conference. I, like you, would be interested in finding that out myself.
April 24, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Hey Greg,
No strawman argument here.
Doug Pagitt has the video of the Seeds of Compassion event on his webiste…plus he has another interesting video in which he gives his thoughts on the Seeds of Compassion event (while driving).
http://dougpagitt.com/podcasts/seeds-of-compassion-reflections#comments
He makes some very interesting comments, which to me, reveal why the Gospel of Jesus Christ wasn’t given (by Pagitt or Bell…because “their stream of religious expression” does not allow for it?).
Pagitt states that he is surprised that he and Bell were the only representatives from the evangelical “faith expression” and says that evangelical leaders have nothing to fear by going to an event like this (ummm…they weren’t invited and I don’t think that anyone feared).
Pagitt was clearly enomared with Bishop Tutu and the Dalai Lama…especially the way in which they deconstructed the power that came with their position.
Pagitt said that Tutu did a good job of deconstructing the power that came with his position but that he would like to see the things that separate the clergy from the laity, like the “costume” that Tutu wears, to also be eliminated. Pagitt would also like to eliminate things that separate one rligion from another.
Pagitt said that the Seeds of Compassion event was not about establishing a one world religion but about asking questions like:
- How do we become friends with other expressions of faith?
- How do we learn from each other?
- How do we join together in creating meaningful compassion?
(…and you said that the only reason for a Christian pastor to go to this event would be to give the Gospel!)
Pagitt said that the Seeds of Compassion event put an end to “the religious dogmatism that states that Christianity is the only expression of religion that is the sole proprietor of love, compassion and goodness.” (just…wow! Not only a sot of strawman but the anti-gospel too! And…Christianity is the only faith that is the sole proprietor of true love, true compassin and true goodness!)
Pagitt stated that he is a follower of the “Jesus story” and that if he wants others to follow the “Jesus story”, then it can’t be because he/we argue that he/we is/are the sole proprietor of all that is loving and good. He says that it was good to publicly renounce this thought at this event. (…and there we have one of the reasons for attending the event)
Pagitt stated that Jesus calls us to the fullness of humanity and not to a belief system that then releases us for compasion and goodness for the first time (What?!…You have got to be kidding me?)
Pagitt said that we are to be Jesus followers in the Kingdom of God “where ever we find it” and that this was “certainly the case” at the Seeds of Compassion event (This is why it is always so hard to nail down how emergents define “the Kingdom of God” because they make references like this one that is inclusive of things like the Seeds of Compassion event, which is clearly not the Kingdom.)
Holy cow…Not only does Bell have some explaining to do! This is crazy stuff.
April 24, 2008 at 7:33 pm
I watched Pagitt’s comments and found them far less anti-gospel than you. (Imagine that) What I heard from Doug was that all of us have the potential for compassion and love because God instilled it within us when we were created in the Imago Dei. He also seemed to say that within the Jesus Story (a very emergent way of saying Christianity, even I get tired of the inability of emergents to use terms everyone understands) is the hope for the best expression of of these things.
I actually disagree with Doug’s kingdom theology a little bit. I don’t think that we find the kingdom of God outside of the people of God. God has chosen to work through his people to accomplish his will on earth. You certainly find it in places we think are unexpected, but that is really a faulty view of God. How could there be an unexpected place of finding God?
I don’t struggle with anything Pagitt said about the event or why he went or what he did. He said that he was very comfortable sharing from his faith in answering questions and found a place ripe to discuss and engage in better ways of bringing compassion to the world.
But, in regards to the Seeds of Compassion event and the kingdom… there were Christians there working to share God’s love and mercy with a multitude of people (not just keynote speakers, but certainly attendees and other leaders) so wasn’t that a place where one found the Kingdom of God at work?
I know you disagree with everything I just said, but I am okay with that too. I don’t struggle being in formative relationship with someone like Doug and you. I think it is good for the kingdom.