You asked “Where in Scripture does it say that we (Christians) are “working for the redemption of this world”? How are you defining world here? And how does the church do any redeeming work (Didn’t Christ do that…and if the church does do this work, what specifically is it)?And how are art, works, culture, actions redemptive (How are you defining redemptive here…Did you change the definition from the redemptive used above, or is it the same)?”

When I said the world I meant both the people of this world and creation itself. We are working to share the gospel of Christ’s redemptive work, and thus are participating in God’s redemption of the world. The onus for the actual redemption is obviously not on us, but we are called to be participants in Christ’s work. This includes Christ’s promised redemption of Creation when he comes to make a new heaven and a new earth. The activity of the church, worship, sharing the gospel, and making disciples, brings us closer to Christ’s work of redeeming and making new creation also. So therefore we are once again participants in that work. We also carry the Edenic mandate to hold dominion over the earth. We are the earth’s caretakers and part of our being created in God’s image is the carrying of that responsibility. As Christians we are being made into the fulness of the image of Christ, so we carry that responsibility even more. If Christ will make all things new, and we have been given dominion over the earth, then we are to do our part in preserving, taking care of, and being mindful of creation.

So yes, the use of the arts to communicate God’s truth, especially in the form of the gospel is redemptive. It can be an outpouring of God’s grace and work to reveal Christ to the world. It also glorifies God when we use our gifts this way. The remarkable thing is that often we catch glimpses of God and his truth in the work of those who are not Christians. Or we can find startling truth about the realities of our brokenness without Christ in the work of non-believers. Seeing, identifying and using these instances to point to the Gospel can be a wonderful way of sharing the gsopel.

You also asked “Is God’s truth revealed somewhere other than Scripture (especially as it relates to God’s redemptive work)? What in culture will reveal more of God’s truth than Scripture reveals…And how is this assertion not gnostic in origin?”

God reveals himself perfectly through Christ. He certainly reveals himself through scripture. He also reveals himself through creation, as Paul argues in Romans 1. This revelation is not sufficient enough to be salvific, but it is significant. Is there a better revelation of God’s immensity or blessing to us than to look at creation? Understanding the blessing of Christ and his sacrifice is even made greater as we consider that all of creation was made through him and is sustained by him, and yet he came lived among us and has died for our salvation. God is also revealed to us through the work of Holy Spirit in the lives of believers. We must always check this revelation against the person of Christ and the teachings of scripture, but we must pay it heed. So yes God is revealed outside of scripture and no I did not say it was a more significant revelation than scripture. Thanks for making sure I am not a gnostic, however.

You said, “Are you saying that God’s work is done by peoples outside of the Christian church today?” Absolutely God’s work is done by those outside of the church. Is it God’s work to feed the poor? Is it God’s work to create vaccines and treat the sick? Is it God’s work to study and understand his creation? Is it God’s work to protect his creation and work to preserve it? Is it God’s work to comfort those who mourn? Yes to all. It may not salvific work, but it is the work of God. All of us are created in his image and carry the call to do his work in this world. As believers we take on the greater call to also go forth and make disciples of all nations, and that is work that is done only through the people of God.

Concerning the sacred. No, there is no Biblical command to seek the sacred. There is the Biblical command to create the sacred. I was actually making a philosophical rather than a Biblical argument in this regard. But, let’s look at this idea further.

We find extensive talk around the idea of the sacred, those things that are consecrated and set aside for God, in the Old Testament. You especially find them in the instructions regarding worship and the tabernacle. In Exodus 28-30 we find clothes, stones, sacrifices, and places being set aside as sacred, as a way to honor God and connect the people to him. In Ezekiel 45 we find land being set aside as a sacred place. In the New Testament we find that all Christians are sacred. 1 Corinthians 3:17 says that we are God’s temple, the place where his Spirit dwells and therefore we are sacred to. 2 Peter 1:18 talks about the mountain of the transfiguration being a sacred place because of what happened there.

As we recapture this idea of setting things aside and making them holy to honor God and to help us in relating to and worshiping God we must seek out the sacred. I don’t know how to always determine if something is sacred, I think it is one of those things you know when you experience. There are places in this world that I have been that are sacred. Wheaton College is a sacred place. There is a mysterious power of God in that place that continues to draw, train, and raise up amazing leaders of the church there, unlike any place I have ever been. As I studied there, that place felt sacred. Talking yesterday with a good friend he was talking about praying in Salisbury Cathedral in England. A place where God’s people have gathered to pray and to worship almost daily for over 800 years. He was trying to capture in words how holy and sacred that place is.

So yes, I think we are to seek out the sacred. I also think we are to try and create the sacred. This means reestablishing the Sabbath as a sacred day and time. This may also mean finding God at work in unexpected places, among unexpected people. Of course for God to be at work any where and with any one isn’t really to be unexpected is it?

Hope that clarifies my thoughts. Although I am sure it will just lead to more dialogue.

Blessings-
Greg

How are you defining world here?

And how does the church do any redeeming work (Didn’t Christ do that…and if the church does do this work, what specifically is it)?

And how are art, works, culture, actions redemptive (How are you defining redemptive here…Did you change the definition from the redemptive used above, or is it the same)?

Greg stated: “We need to explore the culture around us for God’s truth…if we assume, as the church, that the fullness of God’s work and truth is within our work and understanding, we will miss out on fully participating in God’s redemptive work.”

Huh?

What are you saying here?

Is God’s truth revealed somewhere other than Scripture (especially as it relates to God’s redemptive work)?

What in culture will reveal more of God’s truth than Scripture reveals…And how is this assertion not gnostic in origin?

If the church doesn’t explore culture for God’s truth, how will the church miss out on fully participating in God’s redemptive work”(as you contend)?

How are you defining God’s redemptive work here?

Are you saying that God’s work is done by peoples outside of the Christian church today?

Can you support any of the above contentions with Scripture? If so, please cite.

Greg says: So as you go forward, seek the sacred…

As stated, by you, above, you can’t even identify yourself what is sacred or not sacred…So what exactly are you telling people to seek?

Your direction is meaningless (and totally impotent in engaging the culture).

And where is the biblical command to seek the sacred?

Scratching my head,

Paul